Tishrei's toll on Orthodox women
- One Modern Orthodox woman was so upset at being expected to prepare all the meals for her husband and guests that she went on strike: Invoking the halachah/Jewish religious law that women are permitted, but not required, to "live" in the sukkah, she insisted on eating lunches indoors, just so that the menfolk would take the hint and not expect her to prepare their meals. Her lunches were the most relaxing meals that she had during the entire holiday.
- A "shtieble rebbitzen (rabbi's wife)" was livid that she hadn't been able to get to synagogue at all for the entire month of Tishrei because she'd spent the entire month slaving in the kitchen, even reciting Hoshanot while keep an eye on her stove. She complained that her holiday season had been completely ruined, and suggested to her married-couple guests that perhaps a married woman shouldn't read her ketubah (marriage contract) because it would just get her depressed.
- One Modern Orthodox woman was so tired after Hakafot on Erev (Eve of) Simchat Torah that she knew that she couldn't possibly go to synagogue the next morning and still have the strength to make Shabbat (Sabbath) dinner. So, instead, she mumbled her prayers while "decapitating parsips" for chicken soup, missing all the morning's festivities in synagogue.
Another Modern Orthodox woman spent Simchat Torah in a chassidic synagogue, and said that the women were so moved that they stood on chairs in the balcony to check glimpses of their male relatives dancing down below in the men's section. A few years ago, when I asked what Orthodox women do on Simchat Torah in synagogue, one woman answered that, since, according to halachah, men are obligated to study Torah but women are not, it makes sense that most of the rejoicing on the holiday of Rejoicing over the Torah should take place in the men's section. It happens, though, that the Modern Orthodox woman mentioned in this paragraph is a Talmud scholar in her own right. I honestly don't understand how she could watch the celebration from afar and not feel shut out.
Correction received: The shtieble rebbitzen did make it to synagogue on Yom Kippur, and was able to pray with real ferver because there was nothing for her to prepare. (I assume that either everything was made in advance, or her family was invited to someone else's home.)
posted by Shira Salamone at 8:13 AM
33 Comments:
Shira,
So Tishrei does not take a toll on "Conservative" women?
Is that becuause 75% or more don't really observe yontif, not even by Conservative standards? Or maybe they simply go to shul, but don't have a yontif meal?
Or they cook for Friday night dinner after sunset on Friday?
That certainly makes a 3 day yontif easier. Which is what "Conservative" is all about.
I don't think that women's exhaustion this past Tishrei had much to do with halacha, and more to do with social expectations and husbands who could really do more. I know one husband who goes to hashkama so that he can set the table for his wife and do other stuff (chop vegetables, wash dishes). The woman who sent the guys out to eat was very wise, why torment yourself when you don't need to.
I think women expect too much of themselves, and men are too lazy. That's the problem, not the halachic system. (bring on the trolls) After all the mitzvah of hakhel (men, women, children obligated) is associated with sukkot, and men are obligated to educate their offspring (the purpose of hakhel being to educate, men are not let off). In the Temple, the cohanim all of the barbacueing, while everyone gets to fress (esp when a korban todah is offered). I think Jameel of the muqata also barbaques on yom tov :). Probably saves his wife some time.
"I know one husband who goes to hashkama so that he can set the table for his wife and do other stuff (chop vegetables, wash dishes)." Going to the haskamah (early) minyan so that they can do more of the meal preparation is an excellent idea for the guys. They still fulfil their obligation to pray, without leaving everything else to their wives to do.
"I think women expect too much of themselves, and men are too lazy." That may be the case, RivkaYael. I still remember what a look I got when I said that I hated to cook and bought a lot of take-out from ye friendly not-so-local glatt-kosher caterer for the holidays. "I don't do that for the Yoim Toivim," said the woman with whom I was speaking, turning up her nose at the thought. Nu, if you hate to cook, and can afford to buy a prepared dish or two, why not? Why the expectation that many women have of themselves and that many men have of women that every Shabbat and Yom Tov is going to be accompanied by enough homemade food to feed an army?
As for the men, they should at least help as much as they can. They can always do vegie prep, set tables, help with the serving, wash dishes, etc. And there's no law--genetic or halachic--that prevents men from learning to cook.
My husband's specialty, and one of our Shabbat favorites, is "poached" fish. Rinse fish fillets, place in microwave-proof cooking dish with lid, put a little water on the bottom, squeeze the juice of about a quarter of a lemon or lime and sprinkle some dried basil and dill on the fish fillets, and microwave for about 4-5 minutes (taste-testing for "done-ness"). Accompany with chopped kirby cucumbers or an organic pre-made kosher soup (Imagine brand butternut squash soup is delicious and OU parve), whatever cooked vegie will survive sitting on the hot-tray until after services, a grain with some extra water in the pot to prevent burning (brown rice, quinoa, and buckwheat are our favorites, and they're gluten free, too), fruit, and maybe something sweet, and you have a nice, relatively quick and easy, elegant meal for Shabbat without killing either of you.
Anon, I've decided, after serious consideration, to ignore your insulting tone--which I don't appreciate--and address your points.
"Is that becuause 75% or more don't really observe yontif, not even by Conservative standards?"
That's possible, and one reason why I'm seriously considering changing affiliations. The jury's still out, though, so don't get too excited.
"Or maybe they simply go to shul, but don't have a yontif meal?" This remark really irked my husband--he took it as an insult to the women of our own congregation, many of whom leave services early to ensure that the food is ready when the gents and guests arrive.
"Or they cook for Friday night dinner after sunset on Friday?."
That's probably true in some cases. But I wouldn't make a blanket statement, and don't appreciate your attitude.
"That certainly makes a 3 day yontif easier. Which is what "Conservative" is all about."
Some of us are Conservative on principle, and would appreciate a little respect.
I have only one rule for my blog, and that's that all discussions must be phrased in a respectful manner. You could have made the same points tactfully, and if you persist in insulting me (and my readers) on my own blog, I may delete your comments in the future.
For the record, I should also mention that I quoted Orthodox women deliberately because I've sometimes been accused of writing about a community of which, as a life-long Conservative Jew, I have limited personal knowledge. My intention was to let Orthodox women speak for themselves, rather than having me, an outsider, speak for them.
Shira,
Eh, you're quoting them venting on blogs. Every single comment there seemed like a general vent toward their marriage problems. The problems manifested in Shabbat/Yom Tov issues, but none of those are halachic problem, they are marital communication problems. A wife that doesn't like cooking/entertaining probably shouldn't have guests that frequently. Or perhaps she LOVES cooking/entertaining, and likes to complain about her husband online, that certainly wouldn't be a unique situation.
The Minhag of our neighborhood is that only the wives invite people to meals, mostly because the men seem to overbook/not pay attention.
"Going to the haskamah (early) minyan so that they can do more of the meal preparation is an excellent idea for the guys. They still fulfil their obligation to pray, without leaving everything else to their wives to do."
No, being a loving and considerate spouse is an excellent idea for the guys. Going to an early minyan to help prepare the meal is a SMALL manifestation of his being a good spouse.
Plenty of people have bad marriages, it is sad. If you have a bad marriage, it will manifest itself in ugly ways during Shabbat/Yom Tov.
I'll duck back in to agree with Al. This has nothing to do with Orthodoxy and everything to do with marriage arrangements. My wife does the bulk of the cooking. I work 12-14 hour days and have little time to do so. (I'm a fairly accomplished cook and enjoy doing so when I have time). But for Yom Tov, I cook some stuff, or make the salad. I supervise the kids in setting the table.
And in my shul, women dance with one of the sifrei torah, so it's not all the men doing so.
If you want to see what Orthodox people think, get off the blogs and start davening with them. You are seeing a very, very small subsection. We're much more diverse and normal than you think.
"Eh, you're quoting them venting on blogs."
Nu, Miami Al, what else are blogs for? :)
"The Minhag of our neighborhood is that only the wives invite people to meals, mostly because the men seem to overbook/not pay attention."
That's an excellent minhag (custom)--it makes a lot of sense, and keeps everyone happy.
" . . . being a loving and considerate spouse is an excellent idea for the guys. Going to an early minyan to help prepare the meal is a SMALL manifestation of his being a good spouse."
Agreed.
"If you have a bad marriage, it will manifest itself in ugly ways during Shabbat/Yom Tov."
Probably true, I'm afraid.
JDub, it's good to see you back, and I do hope you'll stay. I hope you read my t'shuvah (repentence) post and its follow-up.
I'll grant you that the division of labor often depends on circumstances. As long as both parties are amenable, that's not a problem.
" . . . in my shul, women dance with one of the sifrei torah, so it's not all the men doing so."
I would hope that the day will come when that's true in every synagogue.
"If you want to see what Orthodox people think, get off the blogs and start davening with them."
I'm working on it.
Corrected link:
its follow-up
Well, to respond to Anon of 10 Oct, I am an egal guy and both my wife and I made it to shul every shabat and yomtov throughout Tishrei. (I was also in shul for some of the days of chol hamoed, but my wife didn't go.) My wife and I divided the cooking, cleaning, inviting, and childcare roughly evenly. We also both went crazy trying to make up work for our full-time jobs that we were going to only 2.5 workdays out of every workweek.
The answer to Anon's question is, Tishrei takes a toll on "Conservative" people. By the time it was over, we were both exhausted. No ketuba to blame it on - the culprit is yom tov sheni, an anomalous, vestigial, and unnecessary custom by any rational analysis. But, since we're Conservative, we keep the second day, because minhag avoteinu beyadeinu.
That said, I agree 100% with Miami Al. In a good marriage you divide up the chores however works for you both. You can't tell from the outside whether it is fair or not that the wife does 100% of the cooking. Maybe that's the deal.
Shira,
This is not an example of you getting how you've been causing offense, this is an example of how you do it.
You start pontificating about Orthodox life with no concept of what takes place in it. This time, instead of a mixture of rank speculation and comments overheard at the office, you're quoting venting blogs, what's the difference.
Anonymous 11:56 is a rude idiot, but his point is that none of what you mentioned is related to Orthodoxy, it's related to observant Judaism.
"I would hope that the day will come when [women dancing with the Torah is] true in every synagogue."
Why no tolerance? Why can't Hassidim do what they want? Why should everyone accommodate your views, you don't accommodate theirs.
How did the MO woman handle being tucked away from the Torah in the Shteible? Like any adult that is in a less than ideal situation as a guest, hopefully politely and non judgmently. I notice you are condemning the hosts that welcomed her in for being different, instead of celebrating their welcoming attitude. Your comments regarding Orthodoxy are increasingly bigoted and judgmental, not reflecting the open mindedness you are supposedly in favor of.
"The answer to Anon's question is, Tishrei takes a toll on "Conservative" people. . . . No ketuba to blame it on - the culprit is yom tov sheni,"
Oy.
"In a good marriage you divide up the chores however works for you both. You can't tell from the outside whether it is fair or not that the wife does 100% of the cooking. Maybe that's the deal."
True, Bob.
"This is not an example of you getting how you've been causing offense, this is an example of how you do it.
You start pontificating about Orthodox life with no concept of what takes place in it."
Wow, I may have to find another topic to blog about, since my attempts to blog about Judaism don't seem to be working out quite as I indend them. No offense intended, though, apparently, plenty is perceived. :(
"Anonymous 11:56 is a rude idiot, but his point is that none of what you mentioned is related to Orthodoxy, it's related to observant Judaism."
Correct on both counts.
"Why no tolerance? Why can't Hassidim do what they want? Why should everyone accommodate your views, you don't accommodate theirs."
Guilty as charged. As a committed egalitarian, I really do find it difficult to accommodate completely non-egalitarian practices.
"How did the MO woman handle being tucked away from the Torah in the Shteible? Like any adult that is in a less than ideal situation as a guest, hopefully politely and non judgmently."
I'm not entirely sure how to respond, in this case. The impression I got--perhaps incorrectly--was that the MO female Talmud scholar did not even perceive her situation as that of a person "tucked away from the Torah." *That's* what I didn't understand.
"I notice you are condemning the hosts that welcomed her in for being different, instead of celebrating their welcoming attitude."
Guilty as charged, again. I doubt that it's any secret to her chassidic hosts that she's a Talmud scholar, yet they invited her into their home and shul. I should consider that a sign of achdut, Jewish unity, and not focus so much on the details.
"Your comments regarding Orthodoxy are increasingly bigoted and judgmental, not reflecting the open mindedness you are supposedly in favor of."
This is quite discouraging. I'm doing my best, but, evidentally, without much success. I've made a great effort, since my recent chewing out (see the linked "t'shuvah" post), to avoid "snarky" (disrespectful and/or sarcastic) language and judgmentalism. I think I've done fairly well with the language adjustment, but, apparently, not nearly well enough with the attitude adjustment. At this point, I'm not quite sure how to proceed. My whole point in publishing this post was to let Orthodox women speak for themselves. What did I do wrong *this* time?
Shira, I think the effects of Yom Tov on women in certain sections of the frum population is definitely true, but this is due to sociology and not backed up by any sort of halacha. Sent you an email about it.
I meant, "your depiction of the effects of yom tov on women etc..." (missed out some words, my bad).
The effects are due to sociology, indeed, RivkaYael. And they're not limited to Orthodox women, but to women of any denomination who take the holidays seriously. Since I'm neither skilled nor quick in the kitchen, I'm fortunate to have a husband who would probably object more to me missing services in synagogue than he does to having take-out on Yom Tov. (And you wonder why I want to move to a neighborhood where we could walk to kosher food stores and restaurants!) I'm also lucky that our budget can handle take-out.
"As a committed egalitarian, I really do find it difficult to accommodate completely non-egalitarian practices."
As a committed Jew, do you find it difficult to accommodate non-Jewish religious practices? Should Churches and Mosques be banned because their religious practices are not yours? Are they less entitled to religious expression because their god is not yours?
As a committed egalitarian, you should want an egalitarian community for yourself, but respect that other people are different.
"The impression I got--perhaps incorrectly--was that the MO female Talmud scholar did not even perceive her situation as that of a person "tucked away from the Torah." *That's* what I didn't understand."
But you're not TRYING to understand. You're attacking her (and her welcoming hosts) as wrong. She was there celebrating the holiday with other Jews, how is that "tucked away from the Torah?" I really don't get you at all. I used to enjoy your blog as you seemed to be talking about your struggles with adding Jewish practice. Somehow, in your year of rushing to say Kaddish, your blog turned very negative.
You used to focus on your struggles to be an observant Jew in a Conservative synagogue comprising a handful of rude jerks and a bunch of people that don't show up... you used to be curious... now, it seems like after a year of realizing that you don't fit in the observant side of conservatism, since the observant side is less egalitarian and better educated than you, you have taken to attacking Orthodoxy in a passive aggressive manner.
Again, if you joined a vibrant Orthodox community with an open mind for a year, you'd probably see a different side than you are exposed to. Instead, you seem to take to the blogging world to attack, not to explore a different mindset.
I found this subject line EXTREMELY inflammatory, but it has been part of your general trend toward bashing instead of exploring.
I feel that I read your blog out of habit now, but I definitely used to really enjoy it.
I haven't really commented on your blog before, so I don't want to barge in to say that you've lost your edge or anything like that. But you've really got to shop around more for an observant egalitarian community. Please. Miami Al is claiming that "the observant side [of the Conservative Movement] is less egalitarian and better educated than you," but that's not entirely true. That's true for the people you've been running into. But it's not true where I live. It's not true in the community where my girlfriend grew up or the communities in which many of my friends live. We're educated, we're observant, and we don't cut people out in any way because of their gender (most of the communities I've been in either call up b'not kohen/levi for the first and second aliyot or have cut out those honors altogether because it's not truly egalitarian to make distinctions between Jews. Not sure how I feel about the second plan, but it happens). You're in New York. You take the subway on Shabbat, so the city is your oyster (no treife intended). Go explore. Please. It can't get much worse than the crummy shul experiences you describe on your blog.
"As a committed Jew, do you find it difficult to accommodate non-Jewish religious practices?"
Miami Al, I'm not sure that's a fair question. What persons of other religions do in their houses of worship is of no relevance to me, provided that their preaching doesn't incite anti-Semitism.
"But you're not TRYING to understand. You're attacking her (and her welcoming hosts) as wrong. She was there celebrating the holiday with other Jews, how is that "tucked away from the Torah?"
You may have a point.
"You used to focus on your struggles to be an observant Jew in a Conservative synagogue comprising a handful of rude jerks and a bunch of people that don't show up... you used to be curious... now, it seems like after a year of realizing that you don't fit in the observant side of conservatism, since the observant side is less egalitarian and better educated than you, you have taken to attacking Orthodoxy in a passive aggressive manner."
I'm still struggling with trying to be a reasonably observant. As to the rest, I still haven't entirely figured out how being respectfully critical is the equivalent of attacking, but perhaps I should go back to blogging more about my personal struggles with observance, and/or about the parsha/weekly Torah reading.
"after a year of realizing that you don't fit in the observant side of conservatism, since the observant side is less egalitarian and better educated than you . . . "
I'm at a loss, here: I have yet to experience a truly observant Conservative Judaism, which is one of my chief complaints! I see no reason to assume that "the observant side" is less egalitarian, though it wouldn't be hard for the more observant to be better educated Jewishly than I am, given my relative lack of a Jewish education.
"if you joined a vibrant Orthodox community with an open mind for a year, you'd probably see a different side than you are exposed to."
Again, the jury's still out, but that is a possibility.
Shira, if you ever moved into NYC or its environs, you might enjoy Hadar, Darchei Noam or Drisha minyanim. There is considerable overlap between the populations in these minyanim.
The level of learning and observance is high (to say that fully egalitarian Conservative communities are 'generally' less observant then less egalitarian ones is not true). Hadar, and another shul, Or Zarua on the UES to my knowledge have a don't ask don't tell policy on how you got to shul or what you do at home, but they do enforce no cellphones on Shabbat/Yom Tov. In addition, all the food brought into the shul cannot be purchased on Shabbat and must be from a caterer with hashgacha. At my one time attending a Hadar retreat, all dairy served at prepared meals was chalav yisrael if I remember correctly (I can't remember if the milk served with cereal was OU or some heimish hashgacha).
Also--it is probably not true that most of the observant side is more educated than you--true that there are many day school educated people, but many of the frum people in these congregations are converts/didn't grow up observant and still learning. This is certainly true for many continuing ed people at Drisha or Yeshivat Hadar, who through hard work, managed to catch up to a quite enviable level.
"Miami Al is claiming that "the observant side [of the Conservative Movement] is less egalitarian and better educated than you," but . . . It's not true in the community where my girlfriend grew up or the communities in which many of my friends live. We're educated, we're observant, and we don't cut people out in any way because of their gender . . ."
Where do you live--we're moving! :)
"You take the subway on Shabbat, so the city is your oyster (no treife intended). Go explore. Please."
Thus far, I've restricted myself to the synagogues that we used to attend when we still lived in Manhattan. That may well be a mistake, since I'm more observant now than I was then. Thanks for encouraging me to expand my horizons. One of our friends used to work for the United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism's METNY (metropolitan NY) division, so we may be able to get information regarding egalitarian Conservative synagogues in Manhattan that are more traditional.
Darkhei Noam’s mechitza is designed to create 3 separate domains: a davening space for men, a davening space for women, and a public ritual space, which houses the Torah reading and provides a space for the ba’alai tefillah (the women and men who lead tefillah) to stand while leading davening."
Maybe the excellent, inclusive design of the bima at the Orthodox shul that we attended on Sukkot wasn’t quite as innovative as we thought.
We may be a bit ancient for Kehilat Hadar, which tends to attract folks in their 20s and 30s. But I wish we could afford to live within walking distance of Or Zarua, which sounds like my kind of place: "The Or Zarua morning minyan is characterized by somewhat slow and very serious prayer. We have regular daveners who have come to us as a result of being frustrated by the lightening speed at which shaharit is davened at most morning minyanim. Further, each O"Z service ends with a short d'var Torah, giving us all the opportunity to learn together before dispersing to our respective destinations."
Thanks for the tips, RivkaYael.
Okay, socio-economic observation.
Generally speaking, the wealthier segments of the religious community float to Modern Orthodox with its observant population and ritzy schools/synagogues, or the Reform movement for it's more assimilated structure that matches the liberal secular educated world that they float in the rest of the year.
The less wealthy segments tend toward the Conservative spectrum (more tradition), or the Center/Right-wings of the Orthodox segment, with less expensive synagogues, less fancy educational options.
Generally, wealth correlates with education, not 100%, but there is a general correlation.
Non observant Yeshiva alumni tend to join Conservative synagogues, with the liturgy they learned (more or less, the differences between Conservative Liturgy and Nusach Ashkenazi are pretty small), and practices that they know. They aren't observant, so they don't want an Orthodox congregation with its expectations.
Obviously, this isn't 100%, and in NYC, with 2 or 3 million Jews in the vicinity, is able to accomodate all sorts of options. If 1% of Jewry is Egalitarian Observant, that's 25,000 people in NYC area, so finding an area with 100-200 of them able to furnish a community isn't that extreme.
However, think about the people that would be Egalitarian Observant. They generally had a Jewish education (not all, my wife and I don't have one, we're in the observant world, and we're not alone in that). The demographic that you are in, self-taught, committed egalitarian, observant, is pretty small. Amongst that group, you are likely to be looking at the cream of the Conservative world, Day School educated... not all, but a lot of them.
Also, being observant is "expensive," not just in terms of food (relatively minor for all the complaining), but being able to have an accommodating career. Amongst the highly educated, control of your schedule is easier, amongst the less educated, it is less so.
As a result, the push for what you want is going to be primarily amongst those that are high earning, with limited childcare demands, which is going to be young people with 0-2 small children, or older empty nesters like yourself. The former will congregate in expensive urban areas.
As a result, you're not finding what you want in less expensive, less affluent areas that you can afford. It's not a conspiracy, it's the fact that a Conservative Private School educated person that went to private school and camp probably went to a top college, and lives in a wealthy enclave.
It's basically a segment of Conservative Judaism that is socio-economically like their MO Counterparts.
Miami --
I really wanted to be able to argue with your "observation". But I can't. While I might articulate some of your points differently, your conclusions are spot-on. For strictly anecdotal evidence, I look no further than the Schechter school my younger daughter attends, in which most, but not all, of the families in her class have at least one parent who is an MD or a lawyer, if not a pair or mix & match. In those families where neither parent is a "professional", the family usually owns a well-established, successful business, or a grandparent is paying tuition. There are exceptions, particularly in my congregation, but the vast majority conform to the parameters you lay out.
TOJS --
Think about it. Who values education? People that think that either A) think that their education gave them a great deal, or B) think that their lack of education holds them back, and want better for their kids
For Option A -- of course it's the successful education people. If you have a PhD in library sciences and make no money, you probably don't see a real economic value to educaiton. If you are an MD/Lawyer, you ENTIRE livelihood is based upon your education. That's also why business people normally stop asking about education with anyone over 30, and ask experience, but doctors and lawyers will evaluate a man in his 50s based upon what college he went to, in the former world, education is a means to an end, in the latter, it's an end in and of itself.
For Option B -- they can't afford ritzy private school, period. While people make money without an education, it's normally later in life, since they had to learn what works and to run with it. Those people no longer have small children starting in school. The successful "school of hard knocks" entrepreneurs generally had children younger (educated people marry/have children later), and success later, so private school isn't in the cards.
A quarter of a million dollars into the private K-12 education, I'd hope that the kid went to a good college, and either professional graduate school or the high earning professions open to graduates of top colleges. A young couple like that (yuppies in 1980s vernacular) aren't going to live in a neighborhood that Shira can afford, given the professional background she has described that she and her husband have.
"The demographic that you are in, self-taught, committed egalitarian, observant, is pretty small."
So I've noticed. :(
Amongst that group, you are likely to be looking at the cream of the Conservative world, Day School educated... not all, but a lot of them.
Sounds likely.
"Also, being observant is "expensive," not just in terms of food (relatively minor for all the complaining), but being able to have an accommodating career. Amongst the highly educated, control of your schedule is easier, amongst the less educated, it is less so.
As a result, the push for what you want is going to be primarily amongst those that are high earning, with limited childcare demands, which is going to be young people with 0-2 small children, or older empty nesters like yourself. . . .
As a result, you're not finding what you want in less expensive, less affluent areas that you can afford."
So the fact that my husband and I are both employed by a Jewish organization enables us to have jobs that accommodate leaving early for Shabbat/Sabbath and taking off for Yamim Tovim/major holidays, but it doesn't enable us to earn enough that we can really afford to live in an area with a Jewishly-compatible population. Ouch.
"It's not a conspiracy, it's the fact that a Conservative Private School educated person that went to private school and camp probably went to a top college, and lives in a wealthy enclave.
It's basically a segment of Conservative Judaism that is socio-economically like their MO Counterparts."
So whether we go Modern Orthodox or stay Conservative, we'll find that the synagogue that we wish to join will probably be in a more expensive neighborhood than the one in which we currently live. From what I've seen thus far (over the years and more recently), that certainly does appear to be the case.
"So the fact that my husband and I are both employed by a Jewish organization enables us to have jobs that accommodate leaving early for Shabbat/Sabbath and taking off for Yamim Tovim/major holidays, but it doesn't enable us to earn enough that we can really afford to live in an area with a Jewishly-compatible population. Ouch."
Correct, it enables you to live a Jewish lifestyle. It probably enables you to earn enough to live in an area with other observant Jews. It doesn't enable you to life a Jewish lifestyle with other wealthy observant Jews.
Another way to look at it: who are committed, observant, egalitarians? They are people that believe in being observant Jews, but have an ideology that supports egalitarianism. That means they HAVE an ideology.
While RW Judaism certainly HAS dogmas and ideologies, very few RW Jews do... Ideologies and philosophies are for people that think about those things... very few people think about these things. Those that DO think about those things are of a more intellectual bent. Those of a more intellectual bent MAY choose a RW/LW, or Traditional lifestyle, but they'll pursue it through thought.
I'm pretty sure that I have spent more time thinking about theology than 90% of the people I associate with. For the ones that have thought about it, they generally have thought about other things as well, and therefore are high earners.
You have spent a TON of time exploring thoughts of theology, lifestyle, and religious tradition. Most people don't think that much. Most people that think a lot have advanced education and higher incomes... not all, some get PhDs in the Classics and fail to find a University position...
It's EASY for a Lawyer to arrange their schedule around Shabbat. It's HARD for a handyman to do so.
It's EASY for a Software Engineer to arrange to leave on Friday. It's HARD for an IT Guy to arrange to leave early on Friday, since desktop/server upgrades are usually Friday night (so a blow up on Saturday let's you roll back Sunday before business opens on Monday).
The more education, the more flexibility, and the more income, and the fewer sacrifices for Yiddishkeit.
A Harvard trained Lawyer that keeps Shabbat has a quirk. A Shabbat observant Paralegal is inconvenient.
Al -
I'd put it a little differently. I have found, and I think Shira proves, that being both observant and Conservative is perhaps the hardest kind of Jew to be. It's a decision to struggle, constantly.
When my wife and I were considering which congregation we would join, one of her partners strongly recommend the shul we ultimately joined, as he knew it involved a lot of "thinking" about almost everything. He had been educated in a prominent orthodox day school, and his father was a well known Jewish academic at a conservative institution. I know from personal experience that he really liked our shul. But he joined the MO shul in the same community, because he didn't want to "think" about everything.
TOJS,
Committed Conservative is VERY hard, much harder than being MO.
In the MO, we have institutions to support us, built to make things easy. In the observant Conservative world, there is nothing.
You and Shira are the exceptions.
I've had conversations with other highly educated friends about ideology. My personal theological views come MUCH closer to the "position paper" Conservative world than the MO world. However, I'm affiliated with the MO world, because I have stores nearby, friends to spend Shabbat with, and children for my kids to play with.
It is more important to me that my family is able to enjoy Shabbat in our religious community that I share theological concepts with the Rabbi, seeing as how I don't really discuss theology with him.
Why struggle as one of a handful of observant families in a Conservative synagogue, when I have a wonderful community around me that I enjoy.
Cover to Cover, Shabbat morning services are 3 hours. There are another 165 hours in the week. Life is to short to add struggles and misery, I'm not Muslim! :)
In my particular community, I'm not at all exceptional, I think I'm part of the mainstream of my congregation. But because of the nature of the community, both hashkafically and geographically, there's a considerable overlap between my shul and the local MO shuls. As a result, our shul customarily observes, institutionally, a much stricter kashrut policy than the average C congregation, because we wouldn't want any member of the community to be deprived of sharing kiddush or a simcha with us. I think that's an important policy to maintain.
I don't think being committed C is really that hard. Rather, as Shira often shows, it becomes difficult if you insist on gauging your level of observance against others, rather than having the intestinal fortitude to live, and enjoy, your own life.
"Committed Conservative is VERY hard, much harder than being MO.
In the MO, we have institutions to support us, built to make things easy. In the observant Conservative world, there is nothing."
Indeed, Miami Al, that's the problem I'm facing.
" . . . being committed C. . . becomes difficult if you insist on gauging your level of observance against others, rather than having the intestinal fortitude to live, and enjoy, your own life."
True, TOTJ Steve, but I'd like some support. I'm use your own words as an example: " . . . because of the nature of the community, both hashkafically and geographically, there's a considerable overlap between my shul and the local MO shuls. As a result, our shul customarily observes, institutionally, a much stricter kashrut policy than the average C congregation, because we wouldn't want any member of the community to be deprived of sharing kiddush or a simcha with us." As you may remember, our synagogue voted to buy dairy cakes from unsupervised bakeries. What kind of support does that sort of “let’s do what’s convenient” attitude offer to a person who’s trying to follow the Conservative Movement’s own kashrut policy, and, as you said, how can a shul maintain such a policy when it’s within walking distance of Orthodox shuls and occasional gets visitors from them?
I'm happy to report that another vote was taken two days ago--this time, by the Ritual Committee, instead of the Board--and that policy was reversed. My husband now has the privilege of schlepping to the nearest kosher bakery by subway and bringing home a kosher dairy cake whenever a congregant requests one for a dairy kiddush.
I'm not sure why that's good. The ritual committee decided that the solution to Kashrut problems is to have your husband do all the work... :)
I think you need to find a new Shul.
"The ritual committee decided that the solution to Kashrut problems is to have your husband do all the work..."
Yeah, well, there's that. :( The absence of kosher bakeries from our neighborhood has been the issue from the beginning. Our president--one of the handful of congregants under 75--was tired of schlepping out to the nearest kosher bakery every time someone requested a cake for kiddush. There are very few of us who are young enough to be willing to travel out of the neighborhood "just" to buy a cake. So my husband and/or I will have the "privilege." You know the story--the person with an idea gets "volunteered."
"I think you need to find a new Shul."
What else is new? (Sigh.) A new shul will have to wait until my husband retires and we move to a neighborhood with a much higher population of practicing Jews.
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